"The way they do things in Penang"

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papaya quote

A bit of a sweeping statement for the whole of Thailand

Agreed, but I was comparing like with like. Take a five star hotel in Phuket. (I think Rasa Sayang falls into the 5* category), and litter on the beach is not an issue.

I could be wrong, and if so I will be corrected

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Only a 5 star Fizz


Tut tut - surprised you lowered yourself

Most "Average Joe" beaches where there are tourist are would not meet European standards - but come to think of it - not many in the UK do either

 

Cheers

JJ

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 Hi the issue of what is mainly stormwater debris going into the ocean is a significant concern. It's not confined to developing countries and only after an education program in Oz of at least 15 years has the problem been improved but not wholly eliminated.
If you want to blame it on anything blame it on the excess packaging culture that the West has exported to the rest of the world. This issue can be fixed by education.
The more difficult issue is the release of untreated sewearge into the creeks rivers and oceans. With population growth these problems become more accute and the money needed to fix it is often beyond local budgets. I for one would not mind a tourist levy that goes directly to major sewerage works.

For the detail minded the sewerage works done by a famous engineer ( I can't remember his name) in London in the early 1800's was considered by some to be one of the wonders of the modern world.

Have a great swim 

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hi,

After the Great Stink of 1858, the engineer Joseph Bazalgette was appointed to sort-out the sewerage system for London.

He was later known, with affection, as  "el turd."   

So London got a brilliant combined waste water (foul) and stormwater drainage system with appropriate water traps to prevent foul air leakage. Wonderful idea, using rainwater to flush through the sewerage system.

Whilst working as an architect in London I had the honour to upgrade some minor end-usage bits of the system (well, kinda) as most of my work was with Victorian buildings.

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Only a 5 star Fizz  .....  Tut tut - surprised you lowered yourself

hey steady.....it was only a 4* when we stayed there. It has been subsequently upgraded, and I believe is now a 5*.....but don't know for sure as I don't intend going back

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Agreed, but I was comparing like with like. Take a five star hotel in Phuket. (I think Rasa Sayang falls into the 5* category), and litter on the beach is not an issue.
I could be wrong, and if so I will be corrected

Fizzy, after they finished renovating Rasa Sayang a yr ago, the room rates shot up as it's a 6-STAR Resort now  
Only had a couple of meals there and never went by the beach, so can't tell what the condition's like.

BB

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papaya quote
Agreed, but I was comparing like with like. Take a five star hotel in Phuket. (I think Rasa Sayang falls into the 5* category), and litter on the beach is not an issue.

I could be wrong, and if so I will be corrected

5 star against 5 star - you may well be correct.

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Fizzy, after they finished renovating Rasa Sayang a yr ago, the room rates shot up as it's a 6-STAR Resort now BB

Thanks BB,
I had a feeling it might be a 6*now (in name at least )....I was aware the room rates had shot up........another good reason why we have not been back

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Something Fizzy mentioned on another thread re the blurring of the English language (Manglish??) and was Singlish in Singapore we had to put up with - I was expecting this in Penang but surprised to find that all the locals we spoke to (and we spoke to quite a few) spoke perfect English    It was a wonderful surprise.  Was this a fluke?  Maybe some of the workers speak more Manglish-lah?

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After living here for about half a year I find that the Chinese majority on the island speaks (very) good English.
The Malay and Indian minorities seem to have a little less foreign language skills but it is still easy to communicate with them. Which puts me in a dilemma: what local language should I start learning Hokkien or Malay? Hokkien seems to be the real lingua franca on the island and of course Malay is more widely spoken throughout Malaysia. But so for I didn't feel a real need for either of them, almost everybody speaks (some) English and all government communication is in English as well.

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As I know which country you are from, and that country's residents are noted for their language skills, I'm sure it would be a doddle for you to learn both 

That reminds me... you didn't leave the QJumpers behind in Langkawi did you?  Though not a bad place to be.

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That reminds me... you didn't leave the QJumpers behind in Langkawi did you?  Though not a bad place to be.

No they made the memorable boat trip back to Penang with us. We all survived. 
I think you are overestimate my language learning skills, my brain was always better with numbers.
Mr. Qjumper tried to learn me some hokkien words on several occasions, so far none of them sticked. 

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Mr. Qjumper tried to learn me some hokkien words on several occasions, so far none of them sticked. 

Huh, the times we were together with the Qjumpers, Mr QJumper has greatly impressed my hubby with his many Hokkien phrases and vocabulary!!
btw, my better half knows a couple, hehe ...most important ones: 'char koay teow' and 'tau chooi mm my serng' (soya drink without ice) ...that's all, as that's what he always orders 99% of the time 

BB

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OK! OK! I can answer the part of the question on how high an apartment a monkey can climb! I have a unit on Miami Green opposite Ferringhi beach on the 14th floor! I chased one off my kitchen window one morning. She was there with her baby clutching her belly! That was 14 floors.....don't ask me how she did it! I use the apartment once a year, hence it is vacant most of the time. I suppose she figured out that window sill was a "safe hang-out"? There is a landing just below the sill where, judging by the amount of poop, birds hang out also!

On transport, I found the rapid Penang buses reliable and comfortable.

Certainly no "dog packs" roaming around. Malaysia is a predominantly Muslim country. As such dogs are usually "not looked on favorably" by Muslims and hence, as long as I can remember growing up in KL, their proliferation as "gangs" is very controlled. They just shoot them after they have been caught. Maybe, since 30 years ago, they have more humane methods now? In any case, you will find this to be the case throughout Peninsular Malaysia. Any "bands of dogs" (even a loose dog seen too often) will be called in by the Malays!

On drying clothes: having lived in S'pore, there is strict control on cloths drying there depending on whether you live in government provided housing (HDB) or private. In the HDB units, you can do the drying off long poles in the back (usually off kitchen exterior walls - provision is made with pipes in walls to stick the rods in!). In private condos, they are forbidden totally (again dependent on management) - front or back altho' people have hung them inside balconies. In Penang, I think the standard by-laws of HOAs forbid the drying off balconies and such but again, enforcement dependent. Dryers are not common in apartment in Penang, as far as I know altho' you could purchase one!

Hope this helps!

Das M.

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"As I know which country you are from, and that country's residents are noted for their language skills, I'm sure it would be a doddle for you to learn both..."

I'll add my $0.02 on the subject of "English-speaking proficiency" in Penang (& most other parts of M'sia).  I used to teach English, Math & Science (oh gawd!).....way back in 1975 in KL! Here is the ten-minute synopsis of "The English language in Malaysia":

Up to 1970, English was the dominant language in most situations (primary medium of instruction in schools, courts, civil admin., commerce, etc.) even though the "official" language was English. After '70, he government began its zelaous program of replacing (& prioritizing) English with Malay (Bahasa Malaysia - BM). This was phased in at a rapid pace throughout every establishment and civil structure in the country. With the "preeminence of BM over English", there was no succession to the English teachers of yore. Hence, once the last of the English-educated teachers were gone they were succeeded by Malay-speaking and trained teachers. I have cousins who are, still, teaching within the education community in M'sia and have heard so many hilarious stories of how the English language was systematically (hmmmm... maybe NOT so systematically) molested, morphed and "implemented" in the last bastion - the English Language period, itself. This over-zealous eradication of just about every vestige of English within the peninsula (at times it reached silly preposterous levels - ex. replacing all the colonial statues fronting prominent administrative buildings in all the states, changing all colonial street names, etc.) was fully entrenched by the 1990s. Somewhere along that time-frame, old man Mahatir (Malaysia's notorious PM), realizing the commercial value of English and the disdainful English fluency of his minions (& the population) re-introduced English into the education curriculum although it was restricted to Math and Science subjects. With the latest ruling (2010), we have flip-flopped back again to having everything in BM in the school curriculum. This move by the Education Ministry appears more elections-motivated (in 2011) to appease the public than anything else.

Now, Penang is an enigma in this equation. For a long period of time, the island was in the hands of the opposition party. Hence, it was starved of development funds and while all the mainland states thrived and prospered, the island (until only the last 20 years or so) was "backward" in terms of development. It was only when the central govt, retook the island much later did $$ begin to flow and development start to take place. Curiously, the fact that the island was "not developed", made it a prime attraction for the "off-the-beaten-path" tourists. Low prices and "quaint Penang" drew many foreign visitors. Traders and local populace had to cater to these tourists and managed to keep the English language fluency at a "reasonably proficient" level. There was considerably less mainland government intervention with the administration of Penang even though Penang adopted the same education curriculum as the mainland states. Additionally, Penang was a very attractive retirement place for many on the peninsula in those days due to its lower cost of living. Malacca, by contrast did not acquire the same level of English fluency in its populace as in the case of Penang (lower tourist pop.).

There is a lot more to this topic but this is a condensed version of events around English proficiency.