Need to Support Stay in Malaysia

[scott]

hi,

The opening paragraph of the "Terms and Conditions" section on the MoTour site has changed around quite a bit during 2007. It now says :

"Applicants are expected to be financially capable of supporting themselves for ten years on this programme in Malaysia, without the need to work in the country." 

And, as posted elsewhere, this means showing RM10,000 support income per month  in addition to everything else. Several agency sites now mention the RM10,000.

I think this this is an unfortunate requirement given that many affluent folks may easily meet the requirements in terms of a lump sum, but may not be able to show a regular "income."

As the Deputy Minister of Tourism has stated that the 2008 target for successful applicants will be 3,000 (more than double the current number) it seems that something will have to come down. Either his 3,000 or the RM10,000.

Anyother views on this?

regards, Scott

[donohue]

The concept of income in retirement is a a bit old hat. In Australia and in many other countries the vast bulk of superannuation is based on the accumulation method and pensions or annuities are only used to give particular tax results. Most strategies involve a staggered draw of capital over time. Even if you have "income" say from dividends it makes better sense to accumulate it in the super fund at a lower tax rate and take capital pay outs than keep it in your own hands at the higher marginal rates.

[scott]

hi, Donohue,

Many thanks for your informative post. It highlights the lack of sophistication of the current MM2H requirements.

regards, Scott

[bwe]

I should have applied last year before the 10,000 a month ruling came into affect,
that ruling bares me from the MM2H program.
I am not prepared to transfer 10,000 M into my account every month,
when I know that I don't need it to live in Malaysia,
and secondly, I prefer not the pay the tax man more than I have to.
I had my heart set on going to Malaysia, but it is unlikely now...

[scott]

hi, bwe,

The window for applying without the RM10,000 was pretty small. A friend of mine did it so I know. However, as usual in Malaysia, it's not set-in-concrete so keep track of developments.

The approval total for 2007 is just over 1400, and the Deputy Minister of Tourism is talking about a figure of 3,000 plus for 2008. Where are these people coming from to give a 100% increase?

The Deputy Minister talks about extra overseas promotion but MoTour keeps saying it doesn't have funds. So maybe 2008 will see an easing up on the RM10,000.

As I understand it, you don't need to transfer RM10,000 into a Malaysian account every month.

Taking the requirements at face value, the RM10,000 monthly amount has to be shown as part of the application, and proved for only 3 months.

I'm sure that many people will have fluctuating amounts, often below RM10,000, and sometimes well above.

The phrase that's used is : Show latest 3 months off-shore income of at least RM10k/month ( remuneration from company, retirement pension, rental income, any other stable income and/or return from investments).

Another option is to check out the MM2H programme in Sarawak as the conditions are different, although you have to be over 50. There's also a 1-Year Sarawak Social Visit Pass which may be of interest. 

regards, Scott

[mo]

Hi Scott

I for one am hoping that the New Year will bring a removal of the RM 10,000 monthly income requirement.  Will be keeping a close eye here for any developments on this, in the hope that it will be removed to allow me to proceed with my application.  Happy New Year to you Scott and to all the other members here.   Keep up the good work in 2008 with all the very interesting posts!!! 

[scott]

hi, Mo

Thanks for the nice post. I'll be keeping a track of any changes to the requirements, and will try to find out more about the Sarawak programme. At first glance it didn't seem so attractive but then it's not well publicised and it seems to be tangled up with other schemes. At least it bans the use of agents when applying. That's why there are no agents in Sarawak, and why agents don't bother to have much information about it.

A Happy New Year to everyone.

regards, Scott

[Qjumper]

Hi Scott & Mo, et al

We were approved in November by showing a monthly income over 3 months in excess of RM10k. We were not required to place this in a Malaysia bank account.
I am assuming that the reasoning is that a steady inflow of funds proves reliability. Some time ago there was a influx of folks who had borrowed their FD and had no other support. The program presumably wants to encourage people to spend money in the country and they couldnt do this without an income.

I think that if you can show a reasonable amount of capital and some income you will stand a good chance of getting on to the program.

Happy New Year to you all, especially Scott & Meek without who we would all be speechless.

Bob

[mo]

Thanks Scott and Bob

I’m 47, so unfortunately unable to apply for the Sarawak programme.  Also, although I have well over the required funds for the FD requirements, when my case was discussed with the Ministry they advised that it was highly unlikely that I would receive approval as I couldn’t meet the RM10k monthly income requirement.  My only hope now, I think, is if this requirement is changed ……. so will be waiting in hope.

[rag]

hi,

The opening paragraph of the "Terms and Conditions" section on the MoTour site has changed around quite a bit during 2007. It now says :

"Applicants are expected to be financially capable of supporting themselves for ten years on this programme in Malaysia, without the need to work in the country." 

And, as posted elsewhere, this means showing RM10,000 support income per month  in addition to everything else. Several agency sites now mention the RM10,000.

I think this this is an unfortunate requirement given that many affluent folks may easily meet the requirements in terms of a lump sum, but may not be able to show a regular "income."

As the Deputy Minister of Tourism has stated that the 2008 target for successful applicants will be 3,000 (more than double the current number) it seems that something will have to come down. Either his 3,000 or the RM10,000.

Anyother views on this?

regards, Scott

Do one really need that much to live in Malaysia? My wife and I are surviving quite comfortably on less the A$500 per week in Sydney!

I was thinking of seriously applying for the MM2H program before the 'must use agent' came about. As I would be spending only about 6 months per year for 5 years in Malaysia, I didn't think it was viable considering the cost involved. I am looking at other avenues like Thailand and Philippines and may consider Cambodia etc. Even India is appealing esp Goa.

What I would like to see a visa category for 6 months and 1 year stays for those wanting to test drive to see if Malaysia is suitable for them.

In the event situations change and the MM2H program becomes more palatable and transparent then I would buy a place in Penang and I estimate my monthly expenditure would not exceed MR$4000 per month for me and my wife. If we rent then that could be about MR$1-2k more at best.

cheers

[rag]

The concept of income in retirement is a a bit old hat. In Australia and in many other countries the vast bulk of superannuation is based on the accumulation method and pensions or annuities are only used to give particular tax results. Most strategies involve a staggered draw of capital over time. Even if you have "income" say from dividends it makes better sense to accumulate it in the super fund at a lower tax rate and take capital pay outs than keep it in your own hands at the higher marginal rates.

I get state super about AU$26k pa tax free at present. It is indexed to inflation. A 'pay out' option was offered when I turned 55yrs and it was only about $325k. I declined it as the income from it will be taxed if I cashed out.

[scott]

hi, Raghu,

You're right. The RM10,000 support income is a part of the Malaysian government's way of ensuring a minimum financial level for MM2H applicants. I've lived here in Malaysia for several years on a lot less, and that includes 5-Star hotels in KL, and the coastal resorts, and a generally affluent lifestyle.

Among other things, any popularity of the MM2H scheme here depends on comparative financial requirements with the places you suggest, Thailand, Philippines, Cambodia, India, and also Vietnam.

regards, Scott

[smartcard]

From this official website http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php the 10k monthly requirement is only for applicants Aged 50 years and above.

Is there any other official website showing different than this?

[scott]

hi,

It's a bit confusing. The RM10,000 monthly income on the MoTour site refers to the "income option" as opposed to the "fixed deposit" option.

(members on this site, and others, who have applied via the income option have been rejected and have needed to appeal. It seems that the income option is a difficult route).

The site says :

Besides fulfilling the basic financial criteria of Fixed Deposit placement of RM150,000 (for those aged 50 and above) or RM300,000 (for those aged below 50), applicants should furnish documentation on their financial position to strengthen their application.

So, the FD option, and the income option, are basic financial requirments. Additional financial resources are needed.

The documentation on an applicant's financial position required to "strengthen the application" is generally accepted to consist of :

1). Showing cash of at least RM350,000 for over 50.
2). Showing cash of at least RM500,000 for under 50.

In the past few months, MoTour have added to this "strengthening" the need to show 3 months worth of "support" income of at least RM10,000.

regards, Scott

[rag]

hi,

It's a bit confusing. The RM10,000 monthly income on the MoTour site refers to the "income option" as opposed to the "fixed deposit" option.

(members on this site, and others, who have applied via the income option have been rejected and have needed to appeal. It seems that the income option is a difficult route).

The site says :
So, the FD option, and the income option, are basic financial requirments. Additional financial resources are needed.

The documentation on an applicant's financial position required to "strengthen the application" is generally accepted to consist of :

1). Showing cash of at least RM350,000 for over 50.
2). Showing cash of at least RM500,000 for under 50.

In the past few months, MoTour have added to this "strengthening" the need to show 3 months worth of "support" income of at least RM10,000.

regards, Scott

I am of the impression that the "the need to show 3 months worth of "support" income of at least RM10,000." is at $10k pm for 10 years! I may be wrong but that was my assumption.