Kaz's semi-regular update on Johor

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Hi all!

Yes it's me in lonely Johor. Thought you might be interested in an update while you sip your local kopi or teh.

Shopping. Giant and Tesco have joined Jusco in Bukit Indah, so we now have three shopping centres to choose from all within a ten-minute drive. There is a problem though. Come the weekend, pub hols and school hols, Singaporeans descend like locusts and literally clean out the shelves. It only takes a few days for the supermarkets to re-stock but it's still bloody annoying. On the other hand, I don't suppose all these centres in such close proximity to each other would survive if it weren't for the Southern hordes.

Things will continue to be woeful through the World Cup as it seems Singapore did not buy the rights to screen the games! Ha ha. That means that all the soccer-mad SGers will need to come up to Johor to catch their soccer fix.

Uni. The building of Newcastle University is continuing apace (I swear, it looks like they're throwing those buildings up!) and things look to be well on schedule for opening next year. There's another university campus coming up right at the back of Edu-City (I see it from the freeway as we drive back from shopping) but I don't know which one it is.

Schools. Everything is in abeyance until a "critical mass" of population is reached in Nusajaya. It's chicken and egg though because we know of families who are hesitant to move because no schools are up yet. I'm sure someone's will will break first. We're waiting.

Property. Now here's where it gets interesting. I'll be honest with you and say that we gambled a bit on this location, figuring that prices would have to go up, considering its proximity to Singapore and the disparity in relative earnings between the two countries. Why buy an HDB flat when you can get a house with a small yard in Malaysia for the same price?

The estate du jour is East Ledang. Stage One has sold out. Stage Two is now selling. Prices for a detached house on 8,000 sq ft of land start from RM$2.3 million. We were quoted RM$1.2 million for a semi-detached almost two years ago. So prices are certainly going up.

Infrastructure. The government have already promised more bus services between Iskandar Region and Singapore via the Second Link, toll charges at the Second Link on the Malaysian side will be reduced, and MACS requirements have been relaxed so basically anyone who lives in Johor and travels to Singapore regularly can get one. (Ours is up for renewal next month.)

IF anyone is thinking of settling in Johor, I would recommend sooner rather than later. Once Newcastle Uni is operational and Legoland is open, it's going to start getting seriously expensive. Some property reports I've read suggest that the property prices in Johor will eventually exceed KL!


Kaz!

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hi, Kaz,

Thanks for the update. Like you I'm also optimistic about Johor. My preference is for the east side rather than Nusajaya as I wouldn't need a daily access to Singapore.

The recent agreement about the Malaysian railway station, and land, in Singapore is really good news.

However, I believe that there's a lot of negative feeling from Singaporeans about buying in Johor. My friends here always remind me of the CLOB issue, and the property tax that was specifically imposed on Singaporeans by the previous but one administration.

Just as when I meet someone here in Singapore I'm greeted with "have you had lunch" then when they know I'm travelling back to Malaysia it's "take care, be careful, watch out."

Here's a recent blog that sums things up. Maybe not accurately but enough for pause for thought :

silaterangy
January 11, 2010 Monday, 12:08 PM
Be careful ah. They can change any kind of rules any time, even after you have signed whatever document..

One day, they may say that your purchase agreement wit the developer is not valid (like the CLOB shares). Or maybe that for foreigners, the lease shall be 60 years only (special for foreigners, like the price of petrol). You want top up to freehold or 999, you got to pay extra...like CLOB shares again.

They can even say that your sales agreement with the developer is not valid because the land was illegally converted from some kind of Bumitera reserve, the company was an illegal company because there was no 30% bumi share. Or the company did not observe some kind of ruling and so have illegally developed the land.

Even if everything is alright, I can bet you it will take more than 10 years (I kena, no bluffing) to get your land tite. Meanwhile, anything can happen.

Meanwhile, you think you feel safe parking a car with Singapore license plate when you go anywhere outside the estate, eg to makan or go shopping? I have never felt safe.

Far better to be living in a 3 room HDB flat in RD all the time. Or go to spare money, upgrade to 4 or 5 room. Once in a while, if you feel like taking some risk (of losing your car, maybe you life too), make a quick foray into Johor, then come back. ASAP.

http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?s=1c2cba2363a07ccc1829d9e85573b0ab&t=28942&page=2

This hasn't been my experience in Malaysia but if it's the perceived Singaporean view, or the encouraged Singaporean view, then reality is 100% perception.

I remember a few years ago driving my Singaporean registered Mitsubishi Lancer up the east coast road towards Kuantan. A Malaysian timber lorry came up behind me and tried to drive me off the road. No reason, except the registration. I don't take this  isolated incident as characteristic of anything except some lorry-driving XXXhole . . . but I'm not Singaporean.

Here's some more interesting advice from the same thread (all dated January 2010 - and it's via the Straits Times which is a totally government controlled item) :

MaluforSG : January 15, 2010 Friday, 08:32 PM
Most people will tell you when buying ptx...Location, Location,Location.
Its true for SG situation. Over here, I may not.
Over here, to me...Location, location. location means......
a) Type of neighbourhood, especially immediate neighbourhood estate.
No use hving a posh estate home when your immediate is a low cost or kampung...bound to hve pblms.
b) Ground condition.
Termites are a big headache here..you may end up hving nice floor with patch circular holes when Chemicals
are needed to be inserted as perimeter defence....its Bull.
I nvr buy landed...usually Condos....safety, security - Guards
..... Estate Mgm't
..... Critical Mass..especially same culture.
c) Don't expect Huge Capital gains like SG...it is very minimal..sometimes none.
Yr mindset must be retirement use only..happier with yrslf .
d) Culture - Different states again dictates different culture. Malacca Chinese and JB Chinese or Perak Chinese,
each behaves differently. Even between Muar or Batu Pahat. So don't assume.
e) For me, I did with strategic use..work travel....thats why JB ...PJ......Penang. Its rest stop for me indirectly.
f) Rental returns ...PJ, Penang and myb Malacca ,Ok Jb those near SG....rest...iffy..not sure..if any improvement.

Hope info help...go with Open eyes and many self observations.

MaluforSG : January 15, 2010 Friday, 10:48 PM
One more thing...chk out those relatively new units out for AUCTION....can be as low as 50% below original sales price. Not many local Malaysian are into this auction...it requires 10% outfront Cashier Order on yr bid . Can consider.

Look for Convenancying Lawyers for better advise.....usually they entertain SGs.
Many found in Wisma Menara ( nxt to Pan Pacific hotel ) or Wisma Diaman ( Sentosa, opp kemp majidee ).

It will do you good, understanding from Lawyers in this field. They are generally aware of developers reputations and common "traps" and "disaster". KIV this info.and source location.

MaluforSG : January 16, 2010 Saturday, 10:51 AM
Do not be "discouraged" by today's thread.." Foreign Home Buyer restriction" (ED : property threshold RM500,000). Expect a " U " on this decision a fews years or even mths down the road.

Over here, this kind of decisions happen frequently. However, if you study carefully.."U" turned decisions are mostly " Knee Jerked" adjustments. Continue and Do all your Homework and wait for the RIGHT TIME.

The way I see it...if you contnue and do yr homework in a persistent but leisurely pace....by the time you hve fully understood all the tools and lwas and political currents and culture.....the timing would be just about right. The M$ 500k is not a sustianable policy.

I've put these quotes in as much for my own reference as anything else.

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However, I believe that there's a lot of negative feeling from   Singaporeans about buying in Johor.

Oh without a doubt! And also fuelled by the SG govt, as you point out. Over here, talks with some of the high-ups in the Police also bring out mutterings about Singaporeans being behind a rash of burglaries and other crimes so as to perpetuate the idea that Malaysia is lawless. I collected this merely as a data point some months ago but note that a couple of Johor shootings reported in The Star recently do mention Singaporeans being involved (including a Singaporean wanted for crimes in Singapore ... see last Sunday's edition), although there's no big public declaration of a conspiracy.

Also, I may have mentioned this in another thread, but we've been told that the per-capita crime rate in Singapore exceeds that in Johor, but the reports surface in the free dailies you read in Singapore, then disappear and you never hear the rest of it ever again. Also, there is reclassification of crimes into such categories as "killer litter", and so on, that diffuse the overall effect. It's a smart propaganda move on the part of the SG govt. I'm particularly sensitive to this kind of tactic ever since I read about Guiliani using something similar to secure the mayorship of New York with his "zero tolerance" for crime platform.

There will come a time when even SG's wondrous propaganda machine will not be enough to hold back the tide. I'm betting that, rather that the crime level of Johor decreasing, the crime level of Singapore will increase, and thus the two will reach equilibrium and the (Singapore) game will be lost. I can't see any other logical outcome when you bring thousands of people from another country in an effort to socially engineer your ethnic make-up. Of course Malaysia is doing the same thing, to a lesser extent, with the Indonesians, but the wage disparity is not as great between those two societies as there is between the average Singaporean and the semi-skilled worker brought (and left without pay) from mainland China.

Yawning Bread has had a brilliant series of articles on this. You may like to start here: http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2009/yax-1014.htm

Kaz!

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hi, kaz,

Thanks for the link.

The massive increase in Singapore's population is a sore point with the Singaporeans that I know. For years they were encouraged to "be the best you can be" and now the SG government has effectively said that they can't even produce enough kids so it's get the foreign professional in with an employment pass, then PR, then citizenship. After all, what would the factory do without fresh workers in the front gate whilst the old timers are trundled off to clean-up at McDonalds spending their golden years under the spreading golden arches.

I always say "thank you" to the folks clearing the tables in McDonalds, and the foodcourts. And do you know, 99% of the time the response is a look of total surprise. I don't believe that anyone ever says this. A couple of days ago, one elderly lady stopped clearing and said, "yes, that's right, and thank you to."

I know, I know, Singapore has to remake itself and keep up to date as it doesn't have any natural resources. This is right as the government says so.

Unfortunately the newcomers haven't had 35 years of being told what to do, how to behave etc. etc. And there's friction. But it's Singapore so it's constructive friction. Still, those that own property are seeing a high demand with prices back to and above 2007, developers are selling-out launches, and the SG government collects loadsamoney in the form of stamp duty - keep the economy going on that alone.

Singapore allows suitable professionals to come in with a view to staying, foreign workers with a view to work then leave and uses Johor as a catchment area for anything in-between. I guess that's why the Johorians (at least the Datuks who get quoted in the newspapers) are often upset with Singapore's perceived arrogant attitudes. I often think that it's because of all the corruption in Malaysia, all the money in Singapore, and they can't get them to mix. Singapore is certainly squeaky clean, but with all the newcomers there's a resurgent litter problem. Geylang is the worst kept area but then it's hookerland so I suppose it's treated as some form of pay-back for laxity.

The causeway flood of folks on motorbikes in & out everyday is amazing. And the reverse for Singaporean cars with folks buying cheaper foodstuffs and household goods.

For me, Singapore is Ok for a couple of weeks as a change of pace from Perak. I regard all the media here as a government mouthpiece. I read somewhere an opinion that the Singapore democratic system was the one favoured by the current Chinese rulers in case they were ever forced to introduce some form of democracy. Makes sense. Don't shoot or jail the opposition just sue them. Works all the time.

But it's a money-making country. I guess HongKong is the same or similar. The prediction for SG growth for 2010 is 9% ++, and todays' Straits Times reports analysts forecasting end of 2010 S$ at US$ 1.35. It's currently at 1.4155.

Johor seems a good compromise.

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Guys, what is the commute time from Johor to Changi Airport?

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Border areas between neighbouring countries can always be a source of friction especially when there is an obvious income disparity. The situation in Johore, particularly the part bordering Singapore, is no exception.  I have worked side by side with Malaysians from Johore in a manufacturing environment, on the production lines in Singapore in my earlier days. There was always friendly rivalry and poking fun at each other's characteristics e.g. laziness or "kiasu" behaviour. Fact is the Malaysians with whom I worked were grateful to be able to earn a better living than back home in a stable environment and the Singaporeans were glad to have them as hard working and friendly co-workers sharing a similar background. The economy was strong at that time.

I understand the situation is more strained today with Mainland Chinese because of very different behavioural habits e.g. spitting, littering, dangerous bicycling (yes really LOL) and the knowlege that most of these Mainlanders want to stay vs the opposite view of the Malaysian whom I knew, who wanted to earn in S'Pore but generally longed to be able to put enough by to return home to start a small business or own a home. I have no doubt that these tensions with mainlanders will escalate if the economies of the west do  not improve and Sinapore's economy also stagnates as a result. Singapore lives or dies by the talent, resourcefullness and efforts of it's people, as Scott has pointed out, the island has no natural resources. I think it natural that we tend to use stereotypes in speaking in broad terms about such matters but the reality from my own experience and that of friends is that the peaceful and mutually beneficial relationship Malaysia and Singapore maintain will continue because both sides have too much to lose from disruption. (Also both sides have a mutual fear of the 800 pound gorilla in the region "Indonesia")It's totally understandable that there are sqables between the two as well as finger pointing for well know political reasons on both sides. Personally I think it's great Johore is up and coming and I don't see it as a rival to Singapore. I believe the situation will very much develope perhaps along the line of Shenzhen in Guangdong Province in China and Hong Kong, with great mutual benefit to both sides.
Cheers RMG

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@ scott: Agree. HOWEVER, todays' Straits Times reports analysts forecasting end of 2010 S$ at US$   1.35. It's currently at 1.4155.

The Straits Times analysts are dabbling in sophistry. The truth is, the SG dollar could remain "static" and still rise against the US dollar as the US Fed has been following a concerted strategy to devalue the US dollar over recent years. This began with Alan Greenspan and is continuing with the current clowns in the circus. I've blogged about this before. The true picture of whether the SG dollar rises (or not) is how it does in the cross-rates.

@ Starbuck: Johor is a big state, Starbuck. Do you mean from JB to Changi? Or from Nusajaya to Changi? Or even Kulai to Changi? And is this by car, bus or on foot? The vagaries of the checkpoints are hard to predict accurately. Worst times are on Sundays and the end of any holidays. I'd say 1 hour from JB to Changi. (Distance wise, it shouldn't really be more than a 20-minute drive, but you can never tell.) And we've left 1 hour 45 minutes from Nusajaya to Changi in the past. Thing is, Senai Airport is sweet, so we tend to fly out from there now, connect up at KLIA and then onwards and upwards.

@rmgthatsme: Like you, rmg, I see Johor as being complementary to Singapore. They both offer different things, but there's no doubt there are some shenanigans going on. I hope that the recent railway agreement will see the start of something that's more than just hot air. As for the mainlanders staying, again, I refer to a Yawning Bread link. (His is a great blog that I heartily recommend reading!) The comments are as interesting as the article itself ... http://yawningbread.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/foxconn-wage-rise-spells-trouble-for-singapore/ ... especially the first comment fron "anony". I don't feel it's the whole picture, but another interesting facet to add to the mix.

Kaz!

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Hi KJ. I have a job offer from an airline based at Changi - I'm a pilot. I know living in SG can be expensive, and having just gotten set up in Malaysia I don't really want to move out again. So commuting from JB is a possibility - if it's practical. But I'd need a commute time of 1 hour or less, and that needs to be reliable. I've never travelled by road across to SG so I'm not familiar with the commuting problems, or best ways to avoid them, if any.

I'm familiar with JB airport, having flown 737's in there in the early 90's. Nice airport - but I need road access to Changi!

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Oh hey Starbuck! If you're on the east side (JB), then a commute time of 1 hour is entirely possible. As I said, it should really only be a 20-minute drive but Customs & Immigration can tend to tie one up. If you're on the west side, like Nusajaya, you're outta luck. It'll take you about an hour just to get from Tuas to Changi. (Ten minutes from Tuas to Nusajaya, incidentally.) Although....we do have an SIA pilot living somewhere on the estate. Unfortunately, I don't know his name or I'd  pass it along.

I'm presuming from your questions that you're not in Johor? We don't know anyone in JB to ask about commute time. As you can imagine, all our pals live or work out west like us. I'll have a think and get back to you if inspiration strikes.

Kaz!