The goal posts have moved

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I have been trying to assess the extent to which the financial eligibility conditions have changed in recent years and I believe that the following has happened.

1. The FD requirement has increased from RM100,000 to RM150,000.
2. The monthly income requirement has increased from RM7,000 to RM10,000.
3. The minimum price for property purchase has increased from RM350,000 to RM500,000.

Any comments on the above appreciated.  Incidentally, the lower figures shown against items 1 and 2 are still being quoted here: penang-property.com

In percentage terms, these are astronomical increases, further exacerbated for those of us who are already getting hammered on currency exchange rates, e.g. the British Pound has lost 34% in value against the Ringgit.

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When I first became interested in the possibility of relocating to Malaysia some 18 months or two years ago, €1 was over MYR5 but is now barely over MYR4. 

In that time, too, the changes you have mentioned have come to pass. Now, it still makes financial sense for me to move down but not - or immediately anyway - to join the MM2H programme. I'll probably just do the visa run to see how much I like it whereas beforehand I would have joined and made myself like it!

There seems to be a lack of joined up thinking on the part of the authorities in Malaysia. I imagine the programme was set up to attract foreigners so why put so many off by upping the ante and making it increasingly difficult for them?

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hi, TC,

Welcome to the site.

Yep, you're right. The FD for over 50 was increased, as you have posted, from RM100,000 to RM150,000. Also the amount of this that could be used for property purchase etc. was reduced from RM90,000 to RM50,000. Income is RM10,000. Land, and the property on it, is a state matter and the minimum now is RM500,000. States like Pahang have their own limit. Pahang's is RM750,000 for certain designated areas where foreigners can purchase.

Apologies, I've deleted the link in your post to penang-property as their info is so out of date that it is miss-leading. If members wish to visit the site the name is still there.

The support income of RM10,000 per month is now GBP 2130. IMO, and sadly, MM2H is now geared towards the very, very affluent. A real pity because the country has a lot to gain, and to offer, to the ordinary foreign retiree looking to pay a reasonable amount for a reasonable standard of living.

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Scott,

Thanks for the information.

As I have just pointed out on Alloexpat (posted there as well), I used these figures because I was looking for a benchmark with which to compare current MM2H eligibility, so I went back to what I thought was the start of the scheme.

If the eligibility criteria can increase at such a rate in the space of ten years (it has been suggested to me that the original scheme came out in 2000), what does that hold in prospect for someone on a modest fixed income when their MM2H visa comes up for renewal?

Incidentally, I also ran a comparison with the MM2H terms and conditions and the Singapore Government’s eligibility requirements for a renewable Long Term Visit Pass of up to 5 years. Unless I read the situation incorrectly, the Singapore Government uses a property qualification plus a choice of either liquid assets or local income, but not both like Malaysia.  Of course, this is merely an academic point as the financial requirements for the Singapore scheme are much higher than Malaysia.

As you suggest, MM2H appears to be accelerating in the direction of a more affluent expatriate market, which is sad for this ex-colonial child who spent three happy years growing up in Penang during the Malayan Emergency.

Oh well, I won't let it spoil our holiday in Penang next week.

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hi, TC,

Here's something from the Archives that may interest you : History

It gives a potted history of the scheme from 1996 to 2007. You have to scroll up the page to the start.

If the eligibility criteria can increase at such a rate in the space of ten years (it has been suggested to me that the original scheme came out in 2000), what does that hold in prospect for someone on a modest fixed income when their MM2H visa comes up for renewal?

The terms and conditions under which you apply are those that also apply on renewal. So, on the FD option, if anyone applies now and later the financial criteria goes up it doesn't affect renewal. And once the support income of RM10,000 has been proved at the application stage it isn't needed to be confirmed again.

I can't remember the renewal situation for those on the pension option, I'll check some back posts. Maybe another member will respond.

Singapore's 5-year long term stay needs S$500,000 (RM1,165,000/GBP242,700) in property owned in Singapore plus the following :

. . . have savings of at least S$400,000 parked in Singapore in any form of financial instruments based in Singapore, or show evidence of a monthly local income of at least S$7,000, or have a combined, savings and 5-year equivalent income of at least $400,000.

http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=238&secid=171

Have a good holiday. There's always the 90-day visa option. Say 6 months in the UK (or wherever you're from) then 3 months in Malaysia and extend to 5 months then 1 month travelling regionally (Laos is great) and keep rotating. It's really not much more travel than staying in Country A and having a two-week holiday in Country B. It's just longer hols. Accommodation is more of an expense, but it's feasible.

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Scott,

Thanks again for all the helpful information.  I also read your comments on AlloExpat, where you took the trouble to demolish that inaccurate 'contribution' about UK property prices.

I am aware of the 3 + 2 month visa option you mentioned.  I understand that expats use a variety of destinations, such as Thailand, for short breaks as a way of 'renewing' their Malaysian visa.  However, it is also my understanding that it is wise to occasionally take a more protracted break by returning to your country of origin.  Now, that sounds great if you are, for example, an Australian, but not so wonderful if you need to periodically haul yourself back to the U.K. (you guessed correctly, I'm a U.K. resident).  Neither could we afford to keep a home in the U.K. and spend part of the year in Malaysia.

Furthermore, I have lived and worked in the Middle East and Africa, so I am familiar with life dictated by a 3-month visa.  It's not exactly the most reassuring solution when you have retired and burned all of your bridges, hence the original attraction of MM2H.

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Yes the changes and the poor exchange rate has made me re-assess

If I was making the move this year I would do the visa thing for a while and flip between Malaysia, Philippines and one other (not sure where as yet) and wait until the exchange rate was better

Cheers

JJ

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hi,

I'm also re-assessing things. But from the perspective of already having MM2H and being here. The cheaper GBP means that I can now afford a 2 or 3 bedroom house in the UK. That's why I have a lot of UK property price information to hand because I've been looking at it as a serious option. At least in somewhere like Linconshire it's possible to buy a reasonable place for 2 people and GBP100,000 is about the lower limit unless there's lots of repairs works. For a bit more, like GBP120,000, there's a big choice, and at GBP150,000++ you can get a semi-D or detached with garage 3 beds, 2 reception rooms and a garden.

I've also been looking at the air fare costs between KL & the UK. There's a lot of factors to consider. Last year I was in Malaysia for all of the year and I said that it would be the last time as far as the haze goes. Well, I'm now spending 3 weeks in Singapore then back to Perak and the haze should start at the end of June and I'll be there. I'm getting tired of it.

I agree with you TC that a 90-day ++ visa isn't a great long-term solution, especially for retirement. I did it for 8 years and it was OK then but it's not now. I'm mentally moving towards a base in the UK but I can't for the life of me find any really good reasons for living there. Unless I'm mental as my family & friends say.

Maybe a new topic is needed for this one.

Singapore is too crowded and expensive, but it's safe. And property is stratospheric. And what you get for S$1M is a 3 bed condo unit in the centre of an HDB estate, and it's small with no views except other units. And you live there, or rent out, because in a few years (or months) time it will be worth loadsmore and you can sell-up and retire somewhere close and with more space, like Malaysia.

BTW TC - did you look at the posts on MM2H history. They give a brief rundown on developments but I never added-in the newer stuff from 2007 onwards.

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Scott,

Just to confirm that I read the posts concerning MM2H history.  As you raised the issue of U.K. property, I'll start a separate thread with some advice on that topic.

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Scott,

Please ignore my last post about starting a thread about U.K. property.  I see that you have already beaten me to it.

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what I don't understand at all is this:  the income requirement.
if applying as a >50, and have the required amounts for FD, what is the aim of showing RM10,000 as income?  Does it need to be income that will continue after moving to Malaysia?  If so, that requires an income portfolio of what, RM 3 million? Or USD 1 million, roughly?  Or does program just require that applicant be earning >RM10,000 per month at present, whether by wages, pension or investments, and not care what applicant will be earning in future?
It's just a basic question for which I can't seem to get an answer.

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hi, whitney316,

Welcome to the site.

The income item of RM10,000 monthly is to show that you will be able to support yourself in Malaysia. On this site it is referred to as "support income" to make a distinction.

When you come to renew your MM2h visa you are asked to show that you have maintained your FD. So far, those of us here who have renewed, and have posted about it, have not been asked to re-prove the RM10,000 support income.

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I have just received an interesting piece of information from the Malaysia My Second Home Centre in KL.

Aside from restating a lot of information that will be familiar to readers here, there was one paragraph that caught my eye, viz.

However, at the initial application stage, applicants must show proof of liquid asset worth RM 350,000 (minimum) and monthly income of RM 10,000 if they are  actively working compare to retirees who may comply to  the requirement of RM 350,000 in liquid asset without show proof of  monthly income.

The above paragraph points to a subtle distinction, at the initial application stage, between those applicants who are still working and those who have already retired.  In the latter case, the suggestion is that no proof of monthly income is required.

I hope that this information is both accurate and useful, although sadly it will not change my decision to abandon the idea of retiring to Malaysia, recently confirmed during another visit to Penang.

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Thanks TC for this piece of news.
If correct will be a better incentive as the rm10,000 monthly income is the big hurdle for many retirees.
If they bring down the min.RM500,000 for property purchase would be an added bonus for some applicants who are considering buying....hope some one at MoT reads this 

Sad to hear of your decision (arose from a repeat visit to Pg?)....not nosey, but kind of surprised.
Wish you all the best wherever you retire 

BB

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However, at the initial application stage, applicants must show proof of liquid asset worth RM 350,000 (minimum) and monthly income of RM 10,000 if they are  actively working compare to retirees who may comply to  the requirement of RM 350,000 in liquid asset without show proof of  monthly income.

We picked up our visas in February this year, we are retired, and we had to show RM 10,000 in income coming in.

The government website states that you need quote "offshore income of RM 10,000 per month.  For those who have retired, they are required to show proof of receiving pension from government approved funds of RM 10,000 per month.

So, whichever direction you're coming in, it's proof of RM 10,000 per month UNLESS of course they've changed the rule and not updated the website??