Settling in Malaysia - Decision & Transition

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Hi Guys,

Felt it would be interesting to share views on (1) people's rational or any catalyst for moving to Malaysia plus (2) experiences & challenges during the transition/settling in period. I will briefly kick things off from our perspective:

Rational:  This basically comprises the expectation of an active social/expatriate life, significantly better retirement funding, ability to travel extensively in Asia plus no more Aussie winters. Where we live in OZ is very pleasant, but its a bit flat & expensive for retirement. We also find there is a tendency to become "invisible" once you leave the workforce in OZ (ie good & bad !). The catalyst for kicking us into gear on this was the 2008/09 market crash plus the fear of becoming boring old farts without a new challenge.

Transition: In terms of transitioning, we plan to visit Penang in early June to check things out followed by renting for minimum 2 -3  months next year. We then need to decide re buying or renting (buying is clearly preferable although the low capital appreciation rates & yields make the case arguable from an economic perspective). Also, we would like to maintain a small base in OZ (to hedge our bets !). Cannot comment on the settling in period - so it would be extremely helpful to hear from people who have completed the move in terms of their experiences, challenges, surprises, regrets etc.

Cheers,

James

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Hi James, My wife was born here, Penang, so when we took early retirement here 4 years ago we decided to spend the European winters in M/sia. However every year since then I personally have  regretted the move, we have been expats in southern Spain for the last 27 years so its not a novelty any longer!.
My problems with M/sia are personal, the driving standards are dreadful, the censorship in the newspapers & TV is one of the worst in the world, Astro is bad beyond belief!, there is no national classical radio, (OK, I know there is one on Astro).
In Spain I live on live on red wine, cheese, olive oil, garlic, tomatoes, asparagus & fish, yet when I come to the Far East I'm diagnosed with the big C!, twice in the last 3 years!, each time a growth about a month old!, after being here a month or so.
 I love the food here but is it healthy?, I go to the local market in the mornings, chickens being sold without any refrigeration, washed in water which has probably been there since 6AM?, the hawker food gorgeous but what was it cooked in?,  look at the rats running down the drains!.
I'm sorry everybody, but I'm returning to Spain in 3 weeks, have a house & garden there and its warm/hot and the red wine is less than 10RM!. Regards Rob 

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Thanks Rob for your objective feedback & all the best back in Spain.  Crap food, tv, radio & traffic - WOW !!!!!!!!!!

Shall certainly have to maintain a very open mind when we visit shortly.

James

Hi James, My wife was born here, Penang, so when we took early retirement here 4 years ago we decided to spend the European winters in M/sia. However every year since then I personally have  regretted the move, we have been expats in southern Spain for the last 27 years so its not a novelty any longer!.
My problems with M/sia are personal, the driving standards are dreadful, the censorship in the newspapers & TV is one of the worst in the world, Astro is bad beyond belief!, there is no national classical radio, (OK, I know there is one on Astro).
In Spain I live on live on red wine, cheese, olive oil, garlic, tomatoes, asparagus & fish, yet when I come to the Far East I'm diagnosed with the big C!, twice in the last 3 years!, each time a growth about a month old!, after being here a month or so.
 I love the food here but is it healthy?, I go to the local market in the mornings, chickens being sold without any refrigeration, washed in water which has probably been there since 6AM?, the hawker food gorgeous but what was it cooked in?,  look at the rats running down the drains!.
I'm sorry everybody, but I'm returning to Spain in 3 weeks, have a house & garden there and its warm/hot and the red wine is less than 10RM!. Regards Rob  :)

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hi,

As a counterpoint to Rob, I had a house on the Algarve, Portugal and owned it for 22 years. I don't drink red wine. It was close to Spain and I also enjoyed the tomatoes, olive oil, sardines, garlic, and cheese. Asparagus, well Ok.

I buy olive oil in Giant and have quite a choice. I get cheese from regular trips to Singapore and Jason's supermarket has a wide range. The tomatoes available in Malaysia are small, hard and unpleasant. The good ones get sold in Singapore. But for salads I can buy rambutans, mangoes, the small sweet bananas, papaya and watermelon.

I don't buy hawker food or chickens in the night markets. The places are dirty. It's cheap enough to eat in air-con'd restaurants and, for me, hygiene issues are the same as Portugal.

I listen to the BBC. The English language newspapers are government issue as are the TV stations. But it's all so stunningly obvious here that's it's laughable. And it's in English which I understand.  There's no spin. Or the spin is at the sort of speed that I'd be turning at doing a one-legged cossack dance.     Snails spin faster.

And I don't need to get upset with the political rubbish, I'm a tourist and I don't pay tax. No taxation, no representation, no problem laughing about it all.

I didn't like Portugal's 22% VAT. I got taxed, I got no representation and, because I never could learn Portugese, I didn't even know what I wasn't getting. I just got shoved around - department to department to exit.

The rats in Portugal came out at night and were scrambling between the partly open drains. They were bigger than the Malaysian rats that I've caught. And faster. I complained to the council who came along and threw toxic "bombs" over the fence of the building site down the road. I guess the rats used the drains as air-raid shelters as they came out when the smoke cleared later.

I didn't mean to answer any of Rob's points item by item but it's just happened, and apologies. It's just to show that I've also been through the same decision process and in my case I sold up in Portugal and will stay here, with 3 monthly trips to Singapore to enliven things.

I enjoy the lack of hassle here. I enjoy being a tourist amongst Malaysians, and I seldom socialise with expats. I found the Brit expat social scene in Portugal to be a whine a minute. Everyone seemed easily "put-out" or they were constantly taking "umbrage" at something. And they never stopped bad-mouthing the Portugese who "continually messed up" their lives. And they always seemed interested to know why I had "retired" early, and on how much, and where I got it from. I guess I could then be placed in the pecking order and life, as they knew it, could then go comfortable on. Jeez. I met a couple of great folks from Sweden though.

I borrowed an English language book on driving in Portugal and it started each chapter with, "The Portugese are the worst drivers in the world." 

I did visit Seville and thought it was a wonderful city.

As Rob says, it's personal. Either you like a place or you don't. If you like somewhere you will put up with the stuff that you won't put up with in places that you don't like much. Deep, huh? It's the basic tenet of "Living 101".

I guess James that you've got to visit, and live here, and see how it goes.

I think that what is really lucky, fortunate, good, is that we've all got, or had, options.

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James,
I didn't say the food is crap, full of sugar however!, I looked at pack of coffee beans last week, 60% coffee bean & 40% sugar,salt & margarine. Regards Rob

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Its extremely constructive hearing differing perspectives on Malaysia from people who have settled there.

Would also be helpful to know why people initially decided on Malaysia plus what they learned from the subsequent transition/settling in period ??

James

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(1) people's rational or any catalyst for moving to Malaysia plus (2) experiences & challenges during the transition/settling in period.

Rational for moving to Penang for Mr C and I are our love for Penang and all things Penang. Sure we hate the traffic congestion especially the zillion Mat Rempit, uncomfortable about the censorship in the papers but as an Aussie citizen, I have the luxury of ignoring it. We love our food especially hawkers' style cooking.  I enjoy the novelty of shopping in the wet market vs supermarkets.  I love the fact that you can live like royalty (perhaps an exaggeration, just a little bit) because of the strong Aussie dollars and most things are so ridiculously cheap to buy.

Transition: I will probably do the three months stay until Mr C decides to quit work. Not sure whether we will buy a property until I have researched further into this matter. Mr C and I have another option which is open to us ie to persuade my sister who owns a property in Tanjong Tokong to rent it to us.

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hi,

Would also be helpful to know why people initially decided on Malaysia plus what they learned from the subsequent transition/settling in period ??

I decided on Malaysia because I couldn't afford Italy. Malaysia wasn't my first choice, but at the time it was the only option. What I've learned is that Malaysia has proved to be better than expected.

I like the pirated DVD's although the TV ads tell me that I'm sponsoring an entire gambling, drugs and porno empire by buying such items. That's what I like about Malaysia. Loads of rules and regulations just like everywhere else, and a random way of ignoring them here, there and everywhere. So there's no point in complaining just join in the fun as it suits, and take advantage of this easy-going randomness.

Over to other members.

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I still havent decided 100% as yet

I have been to Malaysia  several times for 3 or 4 weeks at a time and loved it every time, the people, the hawker food, the prices and funnily enough enjoyed the driving.
I have done the same in Thailand, Vietnam Vanuatu and soon will do Sabah and I dont like the touristy thing so will never keep that side of the economy in business.
For us, so far, Malaysia seems to be the best bang for buck stretching our dollar further , boat friendly and less touty of all the places we have been.

We plan on being boat based when we come up, staying for as long as we like in an area with the advantage of upping anchor and changing the scenery and neighbours as we wish and if we need or chosse to have a break on land, park the boat and stay hotel based for a few days, a week or more before heading out again, stepping over the border to Thailand, Singapore, Brunei or Philippines for as long as the visa allows and then back in, rinse and repeat.

The advantage of being able to re supply in the duty-free ports of Langkawi, Johor and Labuan en route and the fuel cost is very advantageous to us as well as this type of lifestyle, on a powered vessel and in QLD, is quite expensive, overcrowded and becoming increasingly regulated.

I have a lifetime of tv, movies and music on hard drives, so the lack of TV, Astro or radio stations will not bother me so much, as for the news, well lets just say that it was a couple of months before I heard of the 911 world trade centre attacks (out cruising on our previous boat) and I found that lack of knowledge quite refreshing and I am pretty happy to let the rest of the world do it's own thing without me.

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That's what I like about Malaysia. Loads of rules and regulations just like everywhere else, and a random way of ignoring them here, there and everywhere. So there's no point in complaining just join in the fun as it suits, and take advantage of this easy-going randomness.

Same same Scott, all good fun

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the driving standards are dreadful, the censorship in the newspapers & TV is one of the worst in the world, Astro is bad beyond belief!, there is no national classical radio, (OK, I know there is one on Astro).

All true but, the drivers are much less aggressive the where I come from. Never got the finger here, in Amsterdam that happened on a daily basis.
I read the digital editions of 2 Dutch newspapers, the same I subscribed to when I was still living there. For Malaysian news I get a daily email digest with articles from Malaysiakini, and Malaysian insider. Those articles seem uncensored.
Astro I have but I never watch, I got enough series and movies on a hard drive to last me a lifetime and besides that most of the nights are spent with friends and not in front of the Tele
As for wine I go to the wineshop of Burma road. Decent wine for as low as 28RM a bottle. Good wine for around 35.
Oh, and talking about wine tonight we have wine tasting in a bar here in Penang.   

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Our other reasons for choosing Malaysia are also because it is close to Australia, cheap to fly in and out with AA and Tiger, not wanting to be too far from extended family, close ties to Penang, food, lifestyle, etc

There is a huge temptation to leap into making a permanent move to Penang for all of the above reasons but strange as it may seem, it will be a huge culture shock for me to return back to living in this social environment. I have lived more years abroad than in Asia. 

It will make more sense for us to do the seasonal migratory trips until such time as we make up our mind that yes, Penang is definitely the place we want to live permanently. Yes, we may miss out on the current housing boom, alternatively, who knows what is around the corner.

My two cents worth of advice is to rent (unless you have heaps of spare cash and can afford to buy an investment property) and do as many trips as need be until you are quite, quite certain, that Malaysia is where you want to live. I think this applies to any other countries that you may ultimately want to consider.

Thank you for introducing this thread, it helps to clarify my thinking process. 

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More from Simon Black...........



"Simon, I really want to leave the country, but where should I go?”

Quite literally, there is a world of possibilities out there, each full of richness and opportunity. But as you could imagine, it depends on what kind of person you are. What would be a great expat haven for some seems like a hellish nightmare to others.

Over the years I have seen thousands of expats roaming in and out of different countries around the world. In my opinion, most expats fall into seven categories… and chances are you probably fit one of the molds as well:

PIONEER: You are an opportunity-focused expatriate, and you are willing to relocate solely for the prospect of making a great deal of money and doing something interesting. You think nothing of charging in to an almost native, potentially dangerous environment and care nothing of dilapidated infrastructure, squalor.

You are willing to learn the local language and don’t care if anyone else speaks English there… you love the almost lawless, wild west persona and can literally smell the money everywhere.

EXPEDITIONER: You are a classical traveler in the mold of British merchants and explorers– you want to make the journey overseas, but you want your amenities too, complete with a triple mocha latte.

You want to storm the plains of the Serengeti… with an armed guide. You want to see India up close and personal… then go back to your five star hotel.

In short, you want the richness of the expat experience, but you want it to be easy and painless.

RETIREE: You have had a full career and are looking for a switch… it’s not about playing golf every day (though there will be plenty of that), it’s about finding a new direction in life, taking new steps, and getting energized again.

You are looking for something worthwhile to throw your time and effort into, and you want to be surrounded by like minded people who are in a similar position in life.  In a way, you want to turn back the clock and find a place that reminds you of home years ago– 1950s America, for example.

NOMAD: You are a permanent traveler. You roam the globe because there are simply too many amazing places to see, and abundant opportunities in each.  You perhaps have a ‘home base’ somewhere, but you don’t see it for months at a time.  You know people all over the world and enjoy making new connections and trying new things.

You count air miles as an asset and talk about ‘running down to Panama for a few days’ as if you were going down the street to pick up a quart of milk at the grocery store.

HERMIT: You shun contact with most of the world because they just don’t get it.  You are passionate about your beliefs and are looking for a place where you can execute an agenda– growing organic food, preparing for social chaos, etc.

You are possibly interested in setting up a small community with like-minded souls, preferably away from major civilization where you can live your life without bother or interference from governments or corrupt social institutions.

INTERNATIONALIST: You are a smart, educated, opportunistic professional that is a cross between the pioneer and expeditioner– you thrive on opportunity but need some basic structure to feel comfortable… probably because you have a family or some other obligations beyond yourself.

As long as basic needs are met– safety, schools, healthcare, etc., you are happy and can focus on building a life and a new business.

HEDONIST: You have been successful in life and simply want to enjoy the fruits of your efforts over the years– wine, women, whatever else seems interesting. You almost feel like a kid again, free to jump on a plane.


Bob

"you never go broke if you have a bob in the house" -  Harry Webb

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Hi,

I decided to move to Malaysia because I was in a rut and needed a change. I didn't like the way things were going at work (centralisation, distance management and job cuts) and I fancied early retirement. I had a dream about retiring to France but that was too expensive if I was to finish work before my 54th birthday. I had been to Penang on holiday many times and liked it...then by chance I saw an article about the benefits of retiring to live in Malaysia. The more I thought about living in Penang, the more it appealed to me. So I came over on holiday to Penang and looked at it from the point of view of living here. I decided that it could work and that's when I started looking at where to live. I had some help from local friends.

There wasn't much of a transition phase for me. Having done my homework, I decided that I would make it work. I bought a unit in a condo in Penang, sold my house in Scotland and moved over. Local friends helped me get organised with things like utilities and it felt like home by the time by personal belongings arrived from Scotland.

I don't see myself as a tourist and I rarely socialise with other expats. I had a few local friends before I moved here and I've made more good friends since then. I buy from the wet market as much as from supermarkets. I eat at hawker stalls as well as at more expensive restaurants. My health has never been better.

I get annoyed and/or frustrated by some of what goes on here but nowhere is perfect. I still return to the UK/Europe twice a year and I don't rule out the possibility of returning to live in the UK in the future. For the moment though, Penang is home.

Bill

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OK now on topic. About a decade ago the idea evolved that we wanted to retire early somewhere in South East Asia. After extensive travel we narrowed our future domicile down to 3 possible locations: Chiang Mai, Penang, Bali. We started to visit all 3 again but this time with the eyes of a future expat. Penang won hands down. Some reasons: I think you will feel like a package tourist for ever in both Bali and Chiang Mai, at least that is what I concluded on my own experience and after talking to several expats there. Here in Penang, which is much less dependent on income generated trough tourism, I think it's different it's easy to make friends both local and foreign, and you will blend in more quickly, although you will be a foreigner forever. But I can live with that.
Getting a visa is easy and straight forward. Communication with government agencies like water, electricity is done in English. In general the Penangities are very nice people.

However what I do see from time to time are the people I call Malaysia My Second Choice (MM2C). Most of the time they are retirees who have lived in France, Italy or Spain but can't afford to live there anymore because the pound went down. Then they hear about the 10 year visa here, book a 2 weeks holiday to get the visa done, move and... burn down. Sad. Now they are whining about just everything, and telling you how things are better on the other side of the globe. (Where they can't afford to live) For the record with all this I don't have rjnpenang or anybody else on this forum in mind

We are living here now for more then a year and have no regrets so far. We bought a nice condo and have a great lifestyle. Of course there are some downsides, traffic can indeed be a challenge some time. When we just moved we went a lot more to restaurants and foodcourts but when we both started to gain weight we eat more home cooked food now. Weight is down again .