Re: Penang Shortcomings?

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to papaya

I didn't want to post on the open forum but ''' find a way to PM or email, so please accept. There seems to be some exclusions to this forum that I cannot enter. editing is also difficult!

As reported, my wife and I got our MM2H in KL last week.

We were not impressed by KL as a place to live but my history is connected to Penang.
We have been living  in Gurney Drive and Batu Ferringhi for a week and frankly, been very disappointed

Maybe I am naive to have expected more but, suffice to say, Penang is not so great.
I recall frangipanni (sp) and makan stalls... not broken concrete pathways and gangster taxidrivers and trishaws with LED imaging and non-descript architecture.
We were saved by the Ferringhi Garden restaurant. That was delightful.
imo the whole place reminds me of a Butlins Holiday Camp.
Tomorrow we go back to Jakarta and, from my perspective, a renewed appreciation for the lifestyle that my life in Indonesia offers.

I just wish they would allow something that MM2H offers.
If they got as smart as Malaysia has ...Indonesia at large; Bali, Lombock, Jogja etc. would steal all those of us from Malaysia.

Sorry to rant but you have been very communicative on this subject and I am offering my own feedback.

Please feel free to ask why, on the forum,or personally....

Scott...Thank you for maintaining this forum and enlightening us all with detail.

When I have time Imight offer an essay on my trip but will send to you first before posting.

David

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to papaya

I didn't want to post on the open forum but ''' find a way to PM or email, so please accept. There seems to be some exclusions to this forum that I cannot enter. editing is also difficult!

As reported, my wife and I got our MM2H in KL last week.

We were not impressed by KL as a place to live but my history is connected to Penang.
We have been living  in Gurney Drive and Batu Ferringhi for a week and frankly, been very disappointed

Maybe I am naive to have expected more but, suffice to say, Penang is not so great.
I recall frangipanni (sp) and makan stalls... not broken concrete pathways and gangster taxidrivers and trishaws with LED imaging and non-descript architecture.
We were saved by the Ferringhi Garden restaurant. That was delightful.
imo the whole place reminds me of a Butlins Holiday Camp.
Tomorrow we go back to Jakarta and, from my perspective, a renewed appreciation for the lifestyle that my life in Indonesia offers.

I just wish they would allow something that MM2H offers.
If they got as smart as Malaysia has ...Indonesia at large; Bali, Lombock, Jogja etc. would steal all those of us from Malaysia.

Sorry to rant but you have been very communicative on this subject and I am offering my own feedback.

Please feel free to ask why, on the forum,or personally....

Scott...Thank you for maintaining this forum and enlightening us all with detail.

When I have time Imight offer an essay on my trip but will send to you first before posting.

David

Maybe can be moved to Penang board, Scott?  Penang disappointments or Penang shortcomings?  I'll stick my 2p worth on there when moved.

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No, I think it's a good subject to discuss, Davita - especially if we can all be adults and not get into a "my country's better than your country" or "this bit of Malaysia better than that bit of Malaysia" slanging match - and maybe others will join in and point out some of the shortcomings?

I think there is a difference between choosing Penang as a holiday destination and choosing as a place to live - and that's probably where we differ as I think you said this would be a "back up" destination for you?  We were looking at it as a place to live, so we hired a car on our trips and really looked around.  As a beach holiday destination, I'd say look elsewhere, though you can find a few nice beaches if you search around, and have a car.

Batu Ferringhi - at least the central part (and I think that's where you're talking about) - IMO it's a dump and I've said so on this forum in the past.  It's tacky, horrible broken sidewalks, rubbish, you name it.  The outer edges in both directions are quite nice I think.  We stayed in central B Ferringhi a couple of times, just to use as a base, and only because we had "free hotel stay points" to use.  I wouldn't want to live there.

Gurney Drive - I cannot say as I haven't stayed there.  I've heard it gets very busy (noisy).  Maybe others can comment?

I know a lot of MM2Hers on this forum live in and around Tanjung Bungah and T Bungah Hillside and maybe that would've suited you better.  It depends what you want from a holiday really.  And if you really want to relax somewhere laid back and quiet and nice beaches - Langkawi is the place.  Langkawi and Penang are like chalk and cheese.

We're staying in central Georgetown next trip (more free hotel points  ).  Again, it's not really a holiday trip as such, very much a "heads down, get on with it" trip.  I go with no expectations other than expecting good food, good company, and I assume it will be noisy being the main town/city.

Frangipani and all that?  Well, I don't think anywhere stays the same, certainly not after 20, 30 years.  Certainly if you drive down the west side of the island, through the National Park, I think you'll find your frangipanis and a quieter side of Penang.  The south of the island too is pretty quiet.

So - end of my essay    Conclusions: There is no Paradise (anywhere) - and any agent or anyone else who portrays Penang as such, needs shooting IMO.  But I like the place - it's what I'm looking for.  For me, it's got character, nice friendly "local" people who speak English, a great mix of expats (all different nationalities), great food, lots of things to do/clubs/get involved with, good hospitals, shops - and a 10 year visa (yay!).

Shortcomings: the driving's not that special, the roads not that good - lots of potholes (but slows down the traffic at least), maybe beaches not so good in general.

Over to anyone else.....

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hi,

Horses for Courses. 

I've never been taken with KL. For me, it has no character or distinct shopping centre or distinct (if any) cultural centre. Centre as in an area rather than a mall. Even Chinatown is just a couple of rundown streets with not much on offer. And an interesting historical place like Pudu Prison gets demolished. And I think that it's more hot and sweaty than other places. And that's why I don't live there.

Penang was never, for me, the Pearl of the Orient. Georgetown has some attractive colonial and art deco buildings. I think that the grid of streets around Komtar got messed-up with the attempts at pedestrianisation/limiting vehicle access, as did many places worldwide in the 1960'as & 70's. It just happened later in Georgetown. But there's plenty of stuff to see, plenty of places for a kopi-O and a roti, plenty of secondhand book-sellers. And loads of night stalls. I wouldn't mind living on the outskirts of Georgetown, which is where I imagine a lot of my2homers live.

Georgetown has a fort which is a plus and next door a car park which makes me think that no-one gives a damn about priorities, or maybe the car park is the priority. Singapore manages to sort-out it's historic buildings and car parking and access in a visually unobtrusive way. Penang doesn't. But then, after 15 years of living and working in Singapore I still think that someone/something is monitoring me. Of the two islands, I'd choose Penang.

It's a difficult job for a pedestrian to walk around Georgetown and it's the same with KL. It isn't just uneven and broken pavements, it's physically up, down and round about to get anywhere. There's nothing similar in either place to a window-shopping stroll down Orchard Road, or Las Ramblas, or any big main shopping street. But, err, I don't like shopping much.

Beaches - I'd go to Thailand. Thailand also has a nightlife. OK, Malaysia has a nightlife upstairs in the dark but it's not the same fun, ambience, giggles as walking past the in-your-face street bars in Phuket and Pattaya.  But the noise at night, and 24/7 activity. Holiday in Thailand, yep it's a great experience, but live there, not for me.

Anyway, it's not about what any spot in Malaysia doesn't have so I'm not bothered about what I can't get here. 

It's what it does have that's why I'm here. It's a low-cost place to live with a financially accessible mm2h visa programme. Medical care is good and private charges comparatively reasonable. Getting around the country by coach or budget airline is convenient, doesn't cost much, and it's not much hassle. There's plenty of choices for eating out, on a budget (RM3.00 economy rice) or splashing out, and I feel safe in Malaysia, and I don't feel like an outsider even though I obviously am.

Malaysia is a good spot for a base. And if I happen to stay in the base for much longer than planned it's Ok. And there are a lot of shops/workshops where things can be easily ordered, sorted, repaired, fixed, traded-in, or made to last another 6 months. And I don't pay tax on interest or incoming cash. And folks generally speak English, or understand the gist of the meaning in English. And Bahasa Melayu is not a difficult language to learn.

Where I am in Perak is small town, easygoing, very friendly, better pavements than Georgetown and KL, taxi drivers that don't overcharge too much because they recognise you and will need your business tomorrow, and Tesco is coming to a town near me within the year. Priceless.

I'll probably move to Penang at the end of the year.

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Davita,

If you are a MM2homer in Penang, you will have your own car or Rapid Penang buses to get around.  So, the gangster taxidrivers and trishaws with LED imaging will not be applicable to you.

If you are a MM2homer in Penang, you won't be hanging around at the tourist strip of Batu Ferringhi.  So, again, the so-called Butlins Holiday Camp will not be applicable to you too.

and so on.

I can understand your feeling especially those who have had historic ties with Penang decades ago.   Some of those people see the development in Penang as a positive sign and accept it with open-mind while some, who are usually nostalgic about old Penang will find it dissapointing with many skyscrapers being erected and traffic jamming the roads.  They miss what old Penang used to be in the past.  So, Penang cannot really satisfy everyone's taste or expectation.  There are only two choices, like it or dislike it. 

I won't expect Penang to be same like Bali, Lombok or any other places in Indonesia.  They are different worlds.  For me, I'm quite optimistic with what Penang is now and will be in future.  Let's see.        Of course, Penang does have its shortcomings such as broken pavement, traffic jams............But, it's all just a matter of time to get those problems solved.  How long?  No one knows.

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My interest as a potential mm2homer is the public transport.  I hope costa_del_sol is right about the buses. 

However:

The most accurate data I can find on Rapid Penang is:
(a) they don't run to a timetable [schedule = when they start/stop and the approx frequency]
(b) the best frequency is 20 minutes, which goes up to 1 hour for some routes

[If this is wrong, would someone please correct me.]

In my opinion, the number of routes is too few, and the lack of timetable-based operation means you wouldn't know how long you would have to wait [in the heat].

I am aware of the "other" bus alternative, but since Rapid Penang was started because of the inadequacies of previous services, it doesn't impress.

I don't fancy constant hassle with taxi-drivers, and I would miss the motorbike-taxi service I enjoy here.

All these factors are pushing me towards KL, with the well-developed Mass Transit, rather than Penang.  I will have to choose between them when I come for Endorsement, tentatively in late Feb.  If Penang's public transport is as I expect, and I can find acceptable condos near train stations in KL, that will likely settle the matter.

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hi,

Feebee, here's an idea. Buy a motorbike and become your own transport. Motorbikes are fun, easy to ride, and as cheap as chips. Plus, when used around town they are very safe as a lot of traffic goes slower. If I do in fact move to Penang I'll be using my 70cc here, there and everywhere.

Motorbikes are so convenient and you can ride, and park, pretty much anywhere that there's space to get through or squeeze in. 

Insurance is about RM80 per year, road tax is RM4 per year, and bikes use the cheapest petrol and not much of it.

Getting around Penang on a motorbike would be a doddle. Way to go.   

When tourists visit Phuket and Pattaya the first thing that they do is to rent a motorbike. When in Penang do as Penangites do and buy a second-hand bike.

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My interest as a potential mm2homer is the public transport.  I hope costa_del_sol is right about the buses. 

However:

The most accurate data I can find on Rapid Penang is:
(a) they don't run to a timetable [schedule = when they start/stop and the approx frequency]
(b) the best frequency is 20 minutes, which goes up to 1 hour for some routes

[If this is wrong, would someone please correct me.]

In my opinion, the number of routes is too few, and the lack of timetable-based operation means you wouldn't know how long you would have to wait [in the heat].

I am aware of the "other" bus alternative, but since Rapid Penang was started because of the inadequacies of previous services, it doesn't impress.

I don't fancy constant hassle with taxi-drivers, and I would miss the motorbike-taxi service I enjoy here.

All these factors are pushing me towards KL, with the well-developed Mass Transit, rather than Penang.  I will have to choose between them when I come for Endorsement, tentatively in late Feb.  If Penang's public transport is as I expect, and I can find acceptable condos near train stations in KL, that will likely settle the matter.

The frequency of bus depends on what service you are taking.  If you choose to live in Pulau Tikus, Gurney Drive, Tanjung Tokong or Tanjung Bungah where most expats live in, then public transport wouldn't be a problem as Rapid Penang Bus 101 plying the route runs at every 5-10 minutes interval.  I can easily count at least 2 buses running along Tanjung Bungah within 15 minutes at all the times.  What you need everyday such as shops, eateries, shopping mall etc can be reached by 101.  So, I don't think you really need other bus services that goe elsewhere.

To share with you some facts about Rapid Penang you might not know :

1) Rapid Penang is the first public transport company in Malaysia that earns ISO accreditation.
2) Rapid Penang buses provide a free wireless internet connection onboard.
3) Rapid Penang especially Bus 101 uses Sweden-made bus called "Scania" -  a same model as what Singapore SBS Transit uses.
4) Rapid Penang especially Bus 101 is disabled friendly.
5) Rapid Penang provides Intelligent Commuter Information System (ICIS) where you can call the hotline to check next available bus to reduce waiting time.

Few video clips about Rapid Penang :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hvznpl0N2s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22EORFzmRs&feature=youtu.be

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Buy a motorbike

Agreed, motorbikes are great.  I would have to go through the motorbike test to get a licence first, as my own UK licence expired years ago.  Something to consider later, for sure.  Actually, I prefer a bicycle, and used one here until the dog attacks stopped me.

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Rapid Penang Bus 101 plying the route runs at every 5-10 minutes interval.

Thanks costa, good stuff.  Your 5-10 mins is far better than Rapid advertise.  If the buses are good, it could still swing it in favour of Penang.  Do you have an opinion on cycling?

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Thanks costa, good stuff.  Your 5-10 mins is far better than Rapid advertise.  If the buses are good, it could still swing it in favour of Penang.  Do you have an opinion on cycling?

Cycling within neighbourhood is fine but not on major roads.  For farther distance, buses or motorcycles is still a better option.     You may stick to Penang first to get the hands-on feel of public transport (bus 101) here, if not happy, then just move out to KL. 

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Fair point, costa.  Quite possible to try Penang first as it is more "manageable", and then reconsider on the basis of experience gained.  Thanks.

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Thanks everyone for the comments.

Maybe I was a bit harsh. I couldn't sleep last night and made my remarks when I was a little dazed.

The taxi ride from B.F. to the airport this morning gave me the opportunity to see the nicer looking apartments in Tanjong Bungah. I thought that area looked more interesting.

We also passed by the Turf Club area and I could see the nice Colonial style houses.

My friend from Hong Kong intends to live in Penang so we will visit again and have a better look-see.

I agree that we did not spend enough time looking around with an experienced Penangite. Next time.

David

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Scott does a good job of summing things up. For me I get bummed sometime about Malaysia. But then again it's a package deal. You have to take the good with the bad and compare it to the alternatives.

One example
I was looking at Miami but the annual property tax is over 2% of the price of the house. So once you retire you will not have the income to pay the tax. You're forced to sell and move out.
In Malaysia I don't think there are any annual property taxes.

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All these factors are pushing me towards KL, with the well-developed Mass Transit, rather than Penang.  I will have to choose between them when I come for Endorsement, tentatively in late Feb.  If Penang's public transport is as I expect, and I can find acceptable condos near train stations in KL, that will likely settle the matter.

If you can, you should take a look at both locations because KL and Penang are very, very different places.  Personally, I hate KL city centre, though I hear that the suburbs are much nicer - and you might like.  It's all down to personal taste, isn't it.  And I can understand that some might not like Penang as well.